Scoop: Karine Jean-Pierre blocks John Kirby at White House podium
Add Axios as your preferred source to
see more of our stories on Google.
White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre calls on a reporter during a briefing with national security spokesperson John Kirby at the podium in January. Photo: Joshua Roberts/Getty Images
Biden press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre has been blocking national security spokesperson John Kirby from joining her at the podium at White House press briefings, people familiar with the matter tell Axios.
Why it matters: It's the latest twist in the years-long tense relationship between the White House's two senior spokespeople.
- Kirby, President Biden's top spokesperson for foreign affairs, joined Jean-Pierre for most briefings after Israel was attacked on Oct. 7, 2023.
- But for the past two-plus months Kirby has been mostly absent in the briefing room, even as the fighting in the Middle East has continued to escalate.
By the numbers: Kirby's diminished presence coincided with the departure this summer of Anita Dunn, the White House's top communications aide. Jean-Pierre has asserted more control over the briefing room since then.
- In the 20 briefings since Dunn announced her departure on July 30, Kirby has joined Jean-Pierre at just three — about 15% of the time.
- In the 64 briefings this year before July 30, Kirby joined Jean-Pierre at the podium 35 times — about 55% of the briefings.
Since Dunn left, Jean-Pierre has pushed back each time Kirby has suggested appearing at the briefing, a person familiar with the process told Axios.
- With the two of them at odds, the decision had to go all the way up to White House chief of staff Jeff Zients to make a final call.
The intrigue: Jean-Pierre has long privately fumed about Kirby's role.
- Having both of them at the podium was what Biden wanted, but Jean-Pierre thought that Kirby's presence gave the impression she needed a chaperone, people familiar with her thinking told Axios.
- One person familiar with the dynamic said: "The president made the call to have Kirby regularly brief — and it's the president's briefing room, not anyone else's."
Jean-Pierre also expressed frustration that she didn't have decision-making power over when Kirby would join a briefing, a person familiar with the matter told Axios.
- The press secretary has previously vented to Zients, and argued that she should decide when Kirby joins her.
- Zients previously deferred to Dunn — who helped craft the dual-spokesperson arrangement at the president's direction. But Jean-Pierre has been more assertive recently, two people familiar with the matter told Axios.
What they're saying: "That characterization of their dynamic is inaccurate," White House spokesperson Andrew Bates told Axios in a statement. He said Jean-Pierre and Kirby "have a respectful relationship."
- Bates added: "In recent weeks there have been a wide range of guests in the briefing room as we communicate about urgent domestic issues."
- "The president is working hard for the American people, including the responses to Hurricane Helene and [Hurricane] Milton and the port strike."
- Regarding Jean-Pierre pushing back when Kirby suggested appearing at the podium, Bates added: "That is not true."
- A spokesperson for the National Security Council added: "Karine and John have critical jobs working together to inform the American people about the President's foreign policy agenda and the steps he is taking every day to keep the American people safe."
One person familiar with the dynamic added: "It was always planned for Kirby to do fewer briefings closer to the election."
- The White House said both Jean-Pierre and Kirby stand by their statements to the New York Times in February in which they praised each other. Both declined to comment further.
The other side: Kirby also has expressed exasperation at Jean-Pierre being territorial with the briefing room, including her insistence that she select which reporters question him rather than let him decide.
- As tensions between the two grew early this year, Kirby told Zients he was frustrated and expressed doubts that the arrangement was sustainable, two people familiar with the conversation told Axios.
- The White House responded by promoting Kirby to be an assistant to the president, and told reporters in February that Kirby would get his own small team.
- Kirby has been boxed out of the briefing room but has continued to do his own virtual gaggles focused on foreign policy, and represent the administration on TV news shows.
Zoom out: The White House told the New York Times in February that Kirby's role at the podium would decrease as the Middle East crisis ebbed.
- But that conflict has become more intense, and Kirby's absence has frustrated several current and former White House officials who think he'd be helpful to have at the podium during this tenuous time in foreign affairs.
- Kirby previously was the State Department spokesperson and twice was the Pentagon's press secretary.
- It's not a slight to Jean-Pierre that Kirby has more experience than her in speaking about foreign affairs, several current and former Biden aides noted.
