Jun 16, 2022 - Politics & Policy

Trump called Pence a "wimp" on "heated" Jan. 6 phone call

A video of former President Trump projected during the Jan. 6 select committee hearing. Photo: Olivier Douliery/AFP via Getty Images

The Jan. 6 select committee on Thursday released testimony from a slew of Trump administration aides about a "heated" phone call in which former President Trump berated his then-vice president for refusing to overturn the election.

What they're saying: "It started off [in a] calmer tone ... and then it became heated," former White House lawyer Eric Herschmann told the committee.

  • Former White House senior adviser Ivanka Trump concurred that the conversation was "pretty heated."
  • Former White House assistant Nicholas Luna said he remembered Trump calling Pence a "wimp."
  • Retired Lt. Gen. Keith Kellogg, Pence's former national security adviser, recalled that Trump told Pence, "You're not tough enough to make the call."
  • Julie Radford, Ivanka Trump's chief of staff, told the panel Trump called Pence the "p-word."

Why it matters: The testimony was played as part of a deep dive into the pressure Trump placed on Pence to reject Biden electors – and how his anger towards his VP helped fueled to violence

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